hearing from you, join us tomorrow, good night from new york. neil: all right there are indication that republicans are about to bend some of the party worry, they are about to break, i am neil cavuto, fox on top of what could be a change instance on part of very, very worried republicans, speaker boehner, meeting with the core group saying, you know elec eelectione consequences, might as well stay in line. is it over? is the revolution on went the republican ranks? to rich edison in washington dc on the other story of this fiscal cliff still pending,

rich? >> house republican leaders are discussing an overhaul of tax code, lower rates, fewer deductions, a new system that generates more revenue. for some republicans, that qualify z as a tax increase in the rate cut is too stingy, any housing or senate republican decenters to bain are' boehner's are relatively quiet. he fuses to box himself in. and so far his conference in public is letting their boss negotiate, some republicans are publicll acknowledging wealthier americans will have to pay more in a new tax system, they may get lower rates but with fewer deductions they will be sending more money to dc, it is how how sell this those paying more in

general because of a new tax system is a different definition. neil: better be careful what you wish for, let's say if you make it about deductions and limits writes offs, it ends up being more than you would have paid, you look foolish. >> right, that is why speaker boehner has the toughest job in washington, he has to negotiate and then go back and sell it. >> all right, thank you very much, rich edison. to be speaker boehner, a lot of republicans running with tail between their tails here. on deep end like tax, immigrations and reform. they may be caving on issues that tea partiers held near and dear. dick armey, a big tea party player, freedom works, how do you feel about that for one of a better term, dressing down on

part of speaker boehner on republican troops, tea partiers included. many, made him the speaker. >> well, let me say i love john boehner like a brother, i don't envy him the position he is in. but i am also reminded of what ronald reagan taught us years ago, good policy makes good politics, john boehner needs to emphasis economic growth, is the way to get increased revenue. and there is two ways to -- two imperatives, dress down reduce, and discipline our government run among so there is confidence to grow in private sector then a tax system that accommodates that growth. if you will dress a tax system of this country, from the point of view of what is fair, have you taken the most simple minded way to address taxes.

taxes are about raising the necessary revenue to fund the minimum, i if effective governmt that does interfere with growth of private sector, to to so in such a way as to encourage the maximum growth of the private sector is where you get maximum revenue. neil: we're at this cliff, possibility, republicans are under pressure, president said, i'm not budging, -- he left open some details, but he certainly want toss raise taxes on the rich. i guess they can decide whether they will resurrect old rate or closing loophole, how would you feel if they closed loopholes, and credits and special breaks, and that is how they got part of the cliff ahead of what would be the promise be should reform tax

code next year? >> i'm a guy to brought the flat tax back in 1994 this is the correct answer. but, the problem, if you do a piecemeal on it, you really will have a difficult time getting it right. it is no policy for the timid. go the whole hog. do the platt tax, -- plat flat , reform it. neil: you should talk to your colleagues, and say, man up. you know, they are folding like nobody's business. >> there is always -- we have what i called bed wetter's caucus, every bit of bad news causes them to get the nervous nellies, and they go to the speaker, i know theees pressure, they are saying please for custer, i don't want to go, get off the hook, make a deal. but the speaker has to understand what he sits down and

negotiates assumes that president will show up and negotiate from an informed point of view issue his bottom line is, do i have the votes to pass it? neil: i don't know about that what -- >> right. neil: i tell you, when i see the president first meeting with union leaders, then some business leaders, select business leaders by the way, then congressional leaders, i begin to see sort of a prstrategy. very good prstrategy but i think we know where he is coming from, is he over reading the election results, or is he only guy seizing on it? >> they both are over reading the results, republicans, they have to electric wat look at the elect campaign and make friends beyond a narrow. right now the base best of friendship they have, is the fiscal conservative constitutional limited government movement.

let's not lose those friends for the friends they will never have let's get back to foundation of good public policy that encourages growth in the economy, and in a tax system that is fair, honest and not inhicktive of growth, and understand this. this president, with this benghazi debacle staring him in the face, and that will -- he will have to come to terms with that, cannot afford to be the president that allows massive kurtz in defense. -- cuts in defense, leverage that situation, he is just as afraid of being caught as the guy who was irresponsible in our national security allowing a massacre of our diplomats in libya, and now willing to cut defense, he is just as affaid of that scenario. neil: there might be something to that. but let me ask you about tea

party, you sense in a over played their hand. you know, planted seeds for this, thisd they get too caulky, too overzealous, did they turn economic conservative itcism wht happened ? >> the republican party, had its losses in social policy. and they had losses in immigration policy. if you look at tea party movement this movement, is one that has been trying to discipline republican candidates for office. stay focussed on the fiscal policy issues, smaller government. the restraint of the excesses of big government. neil: you don't think that tea party's lost their power of mojo? >> no, they have not, they have

not lost their folk us. neil: here, you know, you know boehner better than i am i think he always thought they were a pain. they never left, you know elevated him to power, i could be wrong, but now i think he is relieved this perception exists they have been humbled and they will not be as much of a pain in the butt. >> no, they are not a political party, per say, they are people with a heartfelt lifetime commit tom a set of principles and ideas they think are good for america. and must govern america, if john boehner thinks this movement has been wrong, let me remind you, as we watched marco rubio, who would have had no place in the elect 2 years ago without tea party movement, nominate or nominee we saw former governor chris crist campaigning with o.

>> that is right, i remember you saying that. >> governor chris, not a personnel in washington that was not endorsing governor crist from florida. neil: i understand what you are talking about move to moderate side, you are right, we'll watch, thank you so much dick armey. >> good-bye. neil: in the meantime, ho-ho-no this whole fiscal cliff is going to ruin christmas.

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neil: all i want for christmas is a generate or? is that where we are after the storms?

has it changed holiday shopping season. retail experts, fak faith hope,d bettebert. >> it is going to be a good christmas but a different christmas, gifts of basic items. >> we're going to start hitting the beginning of a retail ice age, that hit because of hurricane sandy, and so many workers cut from full time, part time, paa john, red lobster, and walmart, and target, and kmart, they have barely enough for gas, and groceries. neil: they don't buy? >> they will buy a lot less, hitting this quarter, and moving at a faster pace. neil: would stores benefit? would they shoppers go to those

stores. >> they will go to walmart, and to lowe's, and i think it will be macy's year. because everything is in macy's. home furnishing and accessories, it may not be the luxury year. it is my niche, it may not are jewelry, but maybe heaters, and cars, they are getting though insurance checks, they are buying cars in northeast that creates jobs. right? so we have -- >> and you are not buying it? you think just a chill because of the timing? >> the timing, we've done a two and a half year duty for a federal judge in new orleans on effects of rita and katrina those checks come out very late. prespend, but, as you start segment people are buying a lot of generat generators, it will d

year for macy's and home if youisfurnishing, but retail wile tough. neil: would women say, honey, i got you a generator do you say you good for nothing ? >> no, remember the children, they still buy for their children, what concerns me more, and mr. negative tie, listen to me, a lot of the facilities for manufacturing got flooded, i am more concerned about the inventory. neil: you think that kids' stuff does well. >> and basic home furnishing. neil: condition they learn to do -- can't they learn to do without. >> i don't have children, but i hope your children are not listening.

neil: they have to learn. >> to learn what? where is santa? there is no santa? neil: well, that people will put aside their own stuff, but get stuff for kids. >> that will dominate. people will buy for kids. neil: not as expensive. >> toys "r" us high yield bonds have traded down. neil: what does that mean? >> people buying less at toys "r" us, and gamestop. neil: bond buyers can be wrong. >> but they tend to be more accurate than equity buyers. neil: and you are negative, and you are positive, bottom line is what? >> it will be a good year, i don't think -- i think that somewhere between 4 to 5%. neil: year-over-year sales gains? >> up 3.2 adjusted for inplaying

inflation. >> 3.2? and what happens if it is 6, will you come back and apologize. >> retail ice age starts next year, hours lost people will have less money. money. >> oh, no. neil: what is not a sell either year, jewelry? >> i think always julie buyers but not -- jewelry buyers. i think the affordable jewelry may get hit, costume jewelry and some apparel. if stores are smart they will make great incentives and sales. neil: sale signs are already out. >> there will not be that people are suffering and anywhere from -- >> they feel guilty about it? >> family and friends and

coworkers are suffering people are not buying high-end items. >> what about on-line sales? >> on-line sales, will be up double digits. >> the number? i got 12. >>13. >> look how close we are, stop arguing. neil: i think it's time for a group hug. i tell you. comfort food, meats and cheeses. >> buy hormel stock and hickory farms. >> what is it? are you a broker here? neil: up to you. thank you both very were. >> thank you, neil. neil: coming up, you know you always wonder, why does it take so long to get help to far to poor victims of hurricane sandy, what if i tell you that unions may be playing a role by not letting non-union clean up workers play a role. that is the fascination i'm talking about.

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neil: whatevers case, rumors just to try to help out in some storm-affected areas. no can do unless you sign up and join the union, even on a temporary basis. florida -- association director, you would know better than anyone, if that is so. because, a lot of workers have talked to fox and others saying they are ready to help, and they have to be part of the union in order to help is, this true? >> first, i want to say our

hearts go out to everyone impacted. what happened is that. i work for a group of utilities called to assist the long island power authority, and i called over to the long island power authority we made arrangement for transfer of crews, but they said at end of the caution, before we do this call to the union to get their okay, and i called over, they said before you do that, we want you to sign the contract. neil: to become even -- temporary basis a union member? no work done unless you are part of a union? >> well contract said, that our folks need to join the union for a period of one month, there were a variety of stipulation in the contract about pricing. i did not look at details of contract we have union and non-union utility workers in florida, i sent about 35 union

workers immediately, and nonunion folks i sent them to pennsylvania, they did not have the union issue, but now they have moved to long island after the issue of resolved. neil: nonunion workers going into the city, they would be persona nongratta? >> high job was to -- my job was to move line workers, i sent them to pennsylvania where there was no problem, it took about 4 days to resolve the issue, what happened that union guys said, we won't you know make anybody join the union. neil: you know what is weird, i hope this was endemic and systemic, but there are a lot of people hurting, i don't think they would care if the help is coming from a union worker or a nonunion worker or mahmoud ahmadinejad, someone, anyone

help us. so, the fact there could have been a pause, because you don't have a union card, kind of galls me, and i'm sure these people too? >> well, my guess is what happened is that the long eye long power authority has an agreement with the union, that any worker that come there, need to be paid union wages or something to that nature. neil: no doubt but in times, all betting all rules all traditional ways are handling things should be off. >> shutly. as a result. i think you know they got called on it and relented and we are a to get our crews in, we have about 129 workers there today. neil: thanks to you, you seem like a modest guy, you seem to be in a gentile, and police and firm way said enough of this nonsense, thank you so much. >> thank you, neil. neil: well coming up, walmart health care warning, has small businesses squirming.

why when it cuts back to healthcare for workers or just cut its out for workers, it is telling those workers, it is beyond our control? blame health care. that is right, blame health care. copd makes it hard to brehe,

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neil: remember darden restaurants, red lobster, and all other guys, now walmart saying for a lot of our hourly workers we're cutting back on hours or just in case of walmart, cutback on health care coverages and because premiums are going through the work, and a lot saying we'll just get rid of coverage and ride our luck and see what happens, they have

that option right now. but companies like walmart and so many others are saying, we want to provide benefits to workers, this is making it cost prohibitive. my next guest on this before anyone, barry sloan saying, if you are going to insure everyone and cover preexisting conditions, you should not be shocked that premiums go through the hook, that is what -- through the roof, that is what is happening. >> this is a tough environment, our business customers are looking for guidance, we're advising really clients across u.s. to take a look at their plan, and health savings accounts and tighten their belts in other areas. neil: how do you absorb, walmart refutes the figures. bottom line they were going up

for workers. this is a trend, i would imagine it speeds up. >> supposedly national trend is 8 to 9% rise in health prem young cost, it be be a shared cost, a cost that business absorbs or a cost down to the worker. neil: in walmart saying, we pay the 4.5%, they pay 4.5%, bottom line it is a lot. >> at the end of the day, this is what u.s. citizens elected. neil: unstoppable? >> health insurance premiums will continue to rise, business owners must look at other ways to cut their costs nonless they s. gary: unless they don't, they have no choice, they offer health care coverage, or if they don't they pay penalty, just suck up the penalty, and deal

with it. >> or they can reduce workforce, and go to health savings ac count. neil: that is what darden tried, a little bit more you know, agility for that. but not a lot in calm's case, -- walmart's case what do they do? >> calm a large company -- walmart being a large company has easier time absorbing these costs, small businesses have few options to reduce the cost. they cannot hide it anywhere. neil: a lot of them do, a friend of mine who runs a diner said i'll try to make it up, if i have to increase their pay or give them more to offset a big hit for them. but that is the best he could do. >> there are a variety of different plans, we favor health savings account that puts first

payment in a shared situation, where we put money into the plan with the employees, we think that there is way too much expenditure in health care, because people do not cost it out. neil: yo you know, i think that obama administration and those who champion this are getting what they wanted and deny. that and you make so cost prohibitive that a number of companieses suck up penalty and drop insurance or others the system with uncle sam. >> the fact that illegal imgrants come here to this country, and get health insurance is just crazy. neil: but the government hat will call the shots? >> the government will caught will shots. government will side who gets healthcare, what type of coverage you can get, what type of ser visions yoof ser serviced

people saying, they are voting for current administration because they do not want to give up choice, you don't really have a choice. neil: it does have a lot of good stuff, the froot loaded stuff was preexisting. but for many it was the goodies that caught their attention. >> extremely well crafted, done in a stealth manner, we have a full year of chaos before this sets in this 2014. neil: thank you barry sloan. >> all right, this is out of los angeles, start meat less mondays. i am proposininging tofu-less tuesdays.

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so switch to regions. and let's get going. together. neil: in los angeles, they are seriously, to encourage meat meatless mondays, for city to get healthier, as i told you, i've been saying no-tofu tuesday, enough about me. joining me, got scott slater, what are you wearing. >> more meat mondays. neil: what do you think of this? >> you know, i commend their effort to pass a something that soundsly they want ho help city of l.a., but, does not make sense for me for city council to spend time on a resolution like this. they have better things to worry

about in los angeles. neil: you are running a billion in the red, i might focus on that before negotiating whether i have a burger, but this is part of a pattern, mayor bloomberg with the big gulp soda, and putting an end to, that on and on we go. you know, policing us. they say, for our own benefit because we're not dig it ourselves, and we're costing a boat load of money as a result. >> it is not their responsibility, we promote, in my restaurant we promote choice, with a veggie burger, and a bacon burger and the turkey burger. neil: how do they do? >> they are phenomenal but not too well. neil: you can tell the food police, well, we have them here. >> not for food police for the guests, but, it helps out to have that variety, but same thing, it is, you know what you

get and you order, you don't need the government you dean need mayor bloomberg or mayor villaraigosa to tell you what to eat or not to eat, that is for the consumer to decide. neil: they would look at your bacon burger, whatever is like, does not have like 1 million-calories? >> i have no idea how many, in my defense that is one time deal in month of july. neil: i understand, i regret it was just one time. but -- >> it is coming back. neil: you true a lot of, tension to yourself. and this is choice. but, now -- >> absolutely. neil: they turn around, for those trying to rein in choice it brings up our health care costs, what do you say to that? >> again, people are going to eat what they' regardless of who revides it whether or not the city of los angeles wants to pass a suggestion, to not eat meat on monday does not mean a thing, it will be consumer's

choice, on what they eat and where they eat. i don't see the purpose of it fun, get on the news but, you know, i'm going to continue to provide what my consumers want. neil: thank you, scott. there was a very loud badg bangn our studio, that are not michelle obama saying, what did you just say about the bacon burger, thank you, scott. >> thank you, neil. neil: devil could be in details, what if i told you, sticking to some that just removes, credits and allowance and deductions could cost republicans more and the rich a lot more. just sticking to what seems like a good headline after this.

neil: i've been looking at this whole, are republicans caving or not? the president is insisting that taxes be raised on the rich, you heard speaker boehner say, all right i'm open to revenues, ii, ie, tax increases on the rich. here is where it gets tricky, it would remove a lot of very popular deductions, maybe limit them for upper income folks. but there is a possible that's republicans might end up having the rich pay more, by so torpedoing allowances and

special breaks they would pay more than they would if the top rate back up to 39.6% under bill clinton. americans for tax reform director maddi doppler, and steve moore. mahdi, that is my fear here. that because they don't want to cave on a headline like tax rate goes up, they will actually hurt the rich more? what do you think? >> well, i tell you this not just that republicans are going to be steadfast on their a ac my be we're not see rate hikes but no hikes in forms of deducts and credits, you have speaker boehner talking about open to new revenues we're talking talking about revenues from economic growth. you know even just one % of economy growth. we've seen the dismal growth,

just 1%, would give you 280 billion-dollars, -- excuse me -- 2.8 trillion. neil: but. but. your definition of growth, i will let you finish. your definition of growth, which is a soup one, is not the -- sound one is not the president's definition of growth. he wants that pro verbial tax hike head on the platter. >> the president talks about raising taxes on millionaires, he is talking about raising taxes on small business owners, we know that we looking at his budget plan, top two marginal rates, they pay through the personal side of the tax code. >> they say 3%. but it works out to half of the revenue. on the small business world, and

almost half hiring, -- steve? >>well, you know, you know me, neil, i hate rate increases, they do significant damage to the economy, truth and i want the rich to pay more taxes i want them to pay more taxes and because they are making more money. you know we have 50 year low in taxes as share of gdp, because this economy is so lousy for such a long time. my first priority so make sure the rates on capital gains and dividends and small businesses do not go up, that is a killer. neil: they are going up. >> i go to mattes on eliminating deduct, probably not, i hate deductions, you know me, i am a flat tax guy,. neil: maddi, my fear, republicans so cowed by this election could i don't know why, it is like, you would think they

were blown out in the election, i am not say they did not lose, but popular vote of close to even, they lost a an election nw they seem have to lost a backbone. >> i am not concerned about what is coming down pipe in terms of the fiscal cliff, you are right, there is a lot of melancholy right now, but we've seen is an affirmation of 2020. they still have senate and white house, we have a strong core at a republican in house, and we saw anything in 2010, and 2011, president making the same claims, i'm raising taxes only on people making over $250,000 a year, i want the rich to pay more, i am not signing into law any tax relief. all that was false, he did that, extended bush tax cuts and we'll see him do it again, i don't think that conservatives need to be too concerned. neil: i don't know, maddi, i love you, but he came after

elect here feels he is the guy who won, he is not about to back down on this. >> but neil, we have democrats -- >> now they might be afraid about two years from now over doing it but what you have patty murrah's, and saying out loud we want go ahead and risk and have the whole thing blow on the cliff, and put pieces back together on new year tells you a lot. >> i don't know they are quite that brave, we have 20 democrats that will see a problem with that. >> i think that the problem, i agree, and i think that you know, i don't want to see tax increase, but problem is real world is, all those taxes gull, on january 1st, unless some action is taken that does give president's strategically a little bit of an upper hand. i just want to see the rates stay where they are, and i think really important for republicans to double down on being the

growth party, continue to pro mote pro economy growth policy. neil: they are afraid of their shadow right now. >> they are. neil: i wonder that the president knows that and i'm thinking that president, i think does aspire that is term, as we discussed election night, he may be to better angels he wants to be a different type of president. i am not seeing that. >> i do not see is either, i was disappointed with his speech he gave friday that was very in your vase, arrogant, saying, i won, voters have spoken there was no olive branch, i did this interview with mitch mcconthem week for "wall street journal," republicans said look we'll be flexible on revenues but we're not raising those rates, this is world war iii if he goes forward that is not the way to start a second term of presidency, there is already such bad blood it

will get worse if the president moves forward with this. neil: maddi, i think that capital gains and drfd dividends are going to go up, but, maddi, i also fear they will push this close totten of the year, and this could blow up on both parties? >> i don't think it will blow up but not i'm booking my tickets home for christmas, we'll push it up for last. we and you this in 2010, when president needed to extend -- and he signed it into law, you are right to worry about capital gains and dividends. we have surtax oncoming up. -- but i think that we have good republicans with good heads on their shoulders who see a rate increase is not going to lap, but we're not going to look at

deducts and credits. neil: do you think that cooler heads prevail? steve? i don't see it,y. >> i think that president, -- like a religion for the left, the rates have to go up, i hate to say this, they want to raise those rates even if though i know it is going to harm the economy, this is an article of faith with them, but republicans have one card they can play if they have the guts, that is to go forward with the spending cuts, the republicans are supposed to be party of limited government, and less spending, what is wrong with 5 or 6 or 8% cutback in the government programs? that is scheduled. >> 100% agree there. neil: there you go a multitrillion dollar game of chicken. >> that is good for the economy. >> get rid of government spending. >> cut government spending! neil: okay, you buck seem upset. -- you both seem upset.

neil: thank you very much. >> thank you. >> all right. we have been getting a lot of tweets how we've been covering this phys cal fiscal mess, and r thoughts, how we avoid this mess, it is very unique, after this. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven gets great rewards for his small siness! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purche, everday! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right?

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look at verizon. so what if we just changed the format altogether ? isn't that the exact same thing ? it's pretty clear. still sticking with verizon. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks coined.

can i still ship a gift in time r christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] breafrom the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery.

neil: one of my favorite things what you think about we asked our followers if republicans should consider raising revenue or raise taxes? >> no. spending and fraud in the entire approach grams is the problem. i the republicans should get everything they want said we could rebuild. >> no. cut spending but responsibility does not live in washington. good 2 percent payroll tax